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  • WereCatf

    Hate crimes? Spraying dicks and swastikas thinking you’re oh-so-cool and oh-so-edgy is a hate crime? Seems to me like it’s just your typical childish vandalism.

    • Nora Bora

      It wasn’t just dicks though, was it?

      And yes, swatstikas, derogatory language rooted in hate, and racial slurs directed at your principal is a hate crime. Especially if it is a public space where your diverse classmates and teachers will see it and feel unsafe.

      Unless, you’re saying that graduating high school seniors have no idea about the Holocaust, the KKK or slavery – what it was or why it was bad?

      • Shibuya

        I could draw a swastika right now and not mean i endorse Nazis. Hate crime needs to have hate for it to be anything other than a crime.
        Example of black and white hate crime. If you run up and insult someone using derogatory racist language and then beat them. 100% a hate crime.

        Example of a grey area is this one. while not nice does not seem to be motivated by hate. seems to be a bunch of stupid teens/young adults being well stupid and edgy.

        Just make them clean it all and fine them how ever much that is and be done with it.

        • Nora Bora

          Why would you draw a swastika? If not for the meaning behind it? Why not just draw vaginas? If you pick a swatstika, you are choosing that symbol for a reason, KNOWING that people have recently been tortured killed, and oppressed under that symbol.

          If I told you, right now to draw a swatstika on the sidewalk outside a synagogue for laughs and giggles…would you do it? I’ll give you $50 bucks, you can say it was for the money – not because you’re racist. And you KNOW they will see it. Then you have to explain to them why you did it (so the know it was you).

          • Shibuya

            Tortured and killed recently really. that was 74 years ago for true nazis
            90% of the things i draw have no meaning behind them regardless of if i am making it or copying something i have seen. Drawing a swatstika out side a synagogue would be fucked up.

            just nitpicking here but that would not be racist, more of religious bigotry.

            they should still have to clean every bit of their graffiti up themselves and not the janitor or some cleaning professionals that the school has to pay for.

  • Nora Bora

    This act has continues to affect them long after, and they were punished. I personally am still very angry and have not forgiven them.

    Unfortunately, this shit continues to happen.

    “It was the worst decision I have ever made in my entire life. What I did there keeps me up at night. I deserve whatever punishment I get,” he said. “I have worked hard since that day to show my family, my school, my community and Principal Burton how sorry I am.”

  • Mounty1103
  • Shibuya

    i agree living people have had that experience. It is terrible that anything like that has ever even happened.

    I still believe that only graffiti i saw that could be considered hate crime is the one about the principal. Still have to prove that it is hate and not just personal attack, very had to do.
    still with the werecat just stupid being very stupid except for the one that wrote “Burton is a”

    • Nora Bora

      Also, to add, this was done the night before graduation! Imagine black and Jewish students in graduation gowns and their family surrounded by “KKK, N*****, f*g”. What the actual fuck was going though these kids head that they thought they could do something like this?!?!?!

  • Shibuya

    to 1st one i would think since this is more than one person hue hue hue (make the laugh sound like an idiot) was though the people drawing dicks.
    for the ones drawing everything else “This will be so funny no one will ever know i did this!” (make this voice kinda nasally and bro dude ish).

    for 2nd trolling/dark humor exists. 2nd part of 2nd replay never put to malicious what you place to stupidity.

    • Nora Bora

      Not enough. Community service for 5 years working with Holocaust museum, hate crime survivors, and more – with every single.ome of them knowing why they’re there and what they did.

      Trolling/dark humor is not a fucking excuse. If you won’t paint a swatstika on a synagogue then you know why it’s unacceptable. Don’t minimize what they did nor make excuses for why it’s not “that bad.”

      Cleaning up their own mess is NOT enough. They need to fucking understand and face the pain, suffering, and hate that is behind those symbols and words.

      I don’t doubt their stupidity. Their does not validate the “unintentional” maliciousness behind their account actions.

      Remember the guy that bombed a federal building? And he didn’t know there was a daycare in the building and a bunch of toddlers died? He felt guilty and said he never would’ve done it if he knew about the kids – but that doesn’t fucking matter. The damage is done.

      • Nora Bora

        Just a few tidbits from the news article I posted up top:

        (To start it’s about Tyler Hebron, who was president of the black student union at Glenelg High School)

        During her freshman year, a student flew a Confederate flag at a football game. Swastikas were scratched into the bathroom stalls. In 2017, someone had written the n-word and Principal Burton’s name on a baseball dugout. She had heard boys play a game to see who could yell the n-word the loudest. To her, this crime was just high-profile proof of the hostility she had always felt….
        … The night before graduation, she found herself thinking about whether she should pack pepper spray in her purse. She wasn’t sure, she told her parents, that she felt safe.

        Among black families like hers, there were doubts that the white teens would face the kind of punishment black teens receive for similar crimes. Two years earlier, a group of students had painted swastikas on a historic black schoolhouse in Northern Virginia. A Loudoun County judge sentenced them not to jail time or community service, but to reading: along with visiting the Holocaust museum, each had to choose a single book about Nazi Germany or the Jim Crow era and write a report on it.

        Two black families came to Burton and told him they were pulling their kids out of Glenelg before the next school year. The principal tried to persuade them not to go.

        But in his own house, his wife, Katrina, was wondering if he should leave, too.

        They had two daughters to think about, an eighth-grader and a senior at another Howard County high school, who on the day of the hate crime had come home and collapsed in her mother’s arms, sobbing. Katrina knew about the parents who warned Burton not to talk about the incident in his speech at the graduation ceremony, and watched as some of them refused to stand and clap for him that day.

        • Shibuya

          5 years is way way to much that is more than most people get for things like manslaughter. racism is always bad, but you dont end it with more hate, education is the only way. In most cases racism and other bigotry are caused by lack of education and low intelligence.
          racial tension is high in the USA at the moment due to racists minorities (as in a small group not a race or gender) on both sides being loud. i have my own opinions on why it has got so bad that i will not bring into this.

          • Nora Bora

            And if you’re graduating high school, you should already have a level of education. Even if the kid is racist, they should at least know better than to act on it by this stage.

            And no one accidentally draws grafities over 50 images of swatstikas, “KKK”, “fag” and “nigger” on the grounds of a school. 5 years of community service and parole is getting off easy in my book.

            I guess you’re more forgiving of racist acts than I am.

          • Shibuya

            by legal means yes i do not want the government involved in it at all other then for the vandalism. If you let them start telling us what we can and can not say even if it is for the worthless and vile things they will start telling us what we can and can not say.

            i would rather the racist, sexist, bigots say their stuff so we can all point and go look a (whatever) than punish them.

            legal i hope that is all that can happen, now lets say it costs them a job or two due to hiring person knowing who they are. I won’t lose any sleep over it. (just as long as it does not follow them for life except in memory)

          • Nora Bora

            Because there is absolutely no juries and the judge is not influenced at all by public opinion?

            They did something vile and racist. Their principal, neighbors and classmates wanted them punished. And they absolutely deserve a punishments that is equal to the crime. They didn’t just draw penises and vaginas – they created a hostile environment for their own peers in a way that reinforced a history of oppression, torture, and death.

            I would also rather racists bigots say their piece, but when they DO something that hurts and threaten others they deserve to be punished.

          • Shibuya

            When it comes to physical harm i agree but emotions are no a tangible thing. Calling someone a name is not a crime if they said “Kill all Jews” ect.. that is conspiracy to commit a crime.

            as it stands all they did was Vandalism in the crime area and just prove that they are assholes/bigots in the public opinion.

            Words only have the power you let them have. if you wouldn’t know the difference if they died tomorrow why should you care what they think about you? now if Trump or other world leader did something like this yeah now they have power and we need to have a real talk.

            If these kids ever go into politics this should be known so that we do not get people like this in power, unless they prove they have changed since they were a kid X-years before (i doubt that will ever happen though)

          • Shibuya

            main thing i do not want is government getting involved with what we can say or do just because someone else may disagree with it.
            This line of thinking does cause some people that have vile though to be able to voice them. Even if someone says the meanest most hateful things to me or friends i believe that is better than not being able to say them and thinking they are good people with their false smiles and words.

          • Nora Bora

            They didn’t SAY something. These young adults went out, bought spray paint, trespassed, and drew homophobic, racist, and antisemitic symbols on public property. They created a hostile environment not only for freshmen, sophomores, juniors, teachers, the principal, graduating seniors and their families.

            They didn’t call a classmate a name.

            They didn’t post a random comment on the internet.

            They didn’t just draw a few dicks and vaginas on a school.

            They didn’t make a dark joke with a punch line.

            They didn’t voice an unpopular opinion.

            The crime wasn’t them exercising their freedom of speech.

            Don’t make what they did about the government. This is about their actions being so vile, so unforgivable that they deserved to be punished by their community and how DARE they feel they had the right to perform such an act to begin with.

          • Shibuya

            to the 1st thing Writing/drawing is part of saying.

            2nd they should know better, but you can not tell me you have never done something you regret later (doubt it is to this degree).
            3rd i have co-workers who while applauded at it (same as me) just wish them common fucking sense and they they have to clean all that up (this is white, black , latino , and i think one may be of Shawnee decent.)
            If someone came to you office and wrote “Go Home Chink” that is where you alert security or police. My HS also had a prank go bad my year, it was vandalism of a different nature, they just had to clean it due to what it was.

            We both agree that these guys are idiots and racists, i still think its better to know who the assholes are than have a hidden one, that is why i think for this one since no one was harmed and there were no “Die (insert something they wrote” or something physically threatening Hate Crime is over kill.
            We should do all we can to keep anything the censors the bad or the good at bay. For the time being the only punishment out side of Vandalism should be all done socially for a few months to year or till we all forget this, whatever happens 1st.

            P.s. social punishment does not mean throw hate at them, that is fighting hate with hate, i mean if they need a favor “nope” job “nope”. treat them like a human you just don’t like. should not be hard.

          • Nora Bora

            1st – No. Graffiti is a physical act and property damage. “Saying” something is sounds, out of your mouth or something written where it’s allowed to be written. For example – you are currently saying something and you have the right to write it. I disagree strongly, but despite my anger and annoyance, I do not hate you. You are not spraypainting this on a school, park, sidewalk, or on a building that does not belong to you.

            2nd – Yes. I trespassed once by pretending to be a new student in a public school. And the “to this degree” part is what makes this a crime.

            3rd – AND community service + parole for years. It’s not fucking jail and they can still go to college and turn their life around. Maybe one day their parents will stop being ashamed of them. (unless…. your colleagues are applauding the “swatsikas, KKK, fag, nigger” part? All my friends that are gay, Asian, Black, Muslim are pissed.)

            You keep saying no one was harmed but that is simply not true. 20% of the students in that school are minorities who were hurt. Their students can’t wear their school shirts in public because kids from other schools are calling them racists. Families considered transferring their kids elsewhere or potential students might be sent somewhere else.

            PS: Wanting young adults to serve appropriate sentences for their actions is not hate – it’s anger. If they continue trying to atone for what they did I might one day forgive them. For now, only Seth Taylor seems to be the one that is possibly truly sorry – but I think he still needs to do more to make up for it.

          • Shibuya

            We are not going to agree on the right amount of punishment for them.

            I did not mean say in that sense and by context you can tell i meant. example caution signs for like deer. they dont say “Caution Deer” on them but they tell you all the same.

            3rd one i need to edit “while applauded at it” damn auto correct got me. appalled is what i was trying to put… damn it.

          • Nora Bora

            PS: If anon teens/adults/kids drew several swatsikas and “KKK” outside your office, your black, latino, and shawnee-descendant would feel threatened and physically unsafe. No need to write “die.”

          • Nora Bora

            Calling someone a name once isn’t a problem. Vandalizing public property where they go to school every day with over 50 racist, antisemitic, or homophobic symbols with a history of physical violence and genocide and words is a whole nother thing.

            Someone calling me a chinky slut
            once doesn’t mean anything. But if they work in the same office building as me and draw “KKK” and “go home chink” outside my office building – that’s just good old fun, right? I don’t have to worry about anything at all.

            I dare you to meet with the students of color, their families and the principal and say “Words only have the power you let them have. Your emotions, your feeling of safety in your school and neighborhood are not a tangible thing. They are just trolling and using dark humor and doesn’t affect you, your family, other students or your community at all.”

            I don’t know how to make you understand that this shit hurts a lot of people and has a ripple effect – It shouldn’t be normalized with:

            It’s just a bunch of stupid teens/young adults being well stupid and edgy.

            Trolling/dark humor exists (as if the Swatstikas is funny Jews? The KKK is funny?)

            Dont end it with more hate. Racial tension is high in the USA (so you should turn the cheek and don’t make a big issue about it. Be a good POC and suffer in silence???)

          • Nora Bora

            Also, when I want to HS, senior pranks was letting 5 piglets loose in the hallway and labeling them 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. Or hiring a mariachi band follow the principal. Or the entire class doing a wave every time the principal stood up. Giftwrapping everything’s in the office. Releasing ping-pong balls down the stairs, etc

            Not racism, homophobia, and anti-Semitism – 18 year olds should know better.

    • Nora Bora

      Also, were caught the next day. They didn’t get to walk at graduation with their classmates. They were rightfully humiliated and should work hard for the rest of their young adult life to atone for what they did.

      Your idea of the “best” punishment for them is not enough for me.

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